Homes are falling into the ocean in North Carolina's Outer Banks

[u/Endolithic]

[u/tidder_mac]

There’s entire towns all built like this on coastal Texas waters. Some are right along the coast, but some are 100s to 1,000s of feet inland. It’s so damn flat there that if there’s any storm surge, it could flood for miles inland.

It’s a really fun looking town with literally everything on stilts.

Would enjoy renting there, but definitely not buying lol

[u/RD_Life_Enthusiast → u/tidder_mac]

I'm from that area, and it always baffled me that no one ever switched to concrete pillars. Like, you're holding up an entire structure on something that a) biodegrades, b) is flammable, c) is vulnerable to termites, and d) absorbs water.

EDIT: I didn't say I knew anything about residential/commercial construction or science when I said I was from there. "It always baffled me" because I didn't know that concrete is worse in saltwater and Venice is built on wooden posts is probably a good why it baffled me. Relax.

That being said, I LOVE me a good beach house vacation. Second/third story porch with coastal breezes and adult beverages? Yes, please, and thank you.

[u/maidenhair_fern → u/RD_Life_Enthusiast]

Now that you mention it, why aren't they built on concrete?

[u/Minimum-Attitude389 → u/maidenhair_fern]

Wood in salt water is excellent, especially in mud.  It won't decay very quickly.  Look at Venice.

Most concreted will erode very quickly in salt water.

[u/ryebread91 → u/Minimum-Attitude389]

Iirc it's not the fact it's in water but the fact it is submerged nearly 100% of the time instead of this constant wet dry cycle every day

[u/MigasEnsopado → u/ryebread91]

This. The buildings of the Baixa district of Lisbon are also built on wooden stilts as that area was once water and the ground is muddy. The trick is maintaining the stilts permanently wet. If you let them dry and get wet again repeatedly, that's when you fuck up. This was a big consideration and source of worry when building the subway there.

[u/bruno444 → u/MigasEnsopado]

Exactly the same in Amsterdam.

[u/plantsplantsplaaants → u/ryebread91]

Wouldn’t some of it go through wet/dry cycles with the tide?

[u/ryebread91 → u/plantsplantsplaaants]

Yes but most of those posts are literally down into the ground with maybe 10-20% being exposed and that would be pretty rare. https://youtu.be/77omYd0JOeA?si=iFSIlMZuuwuOs4N2 This vid is well worth a watch as a whole but around the 2 minute mark it talks about the posts.

[u/PirateMore8410 → u/ryebread91]

What about all the bridges and damns that use concrete that constantly have changes in water height?

[u/latefordinner86 → u/Minimum-Attitude389]

Tell that to bridge engineers.

[u/DookieShoes626 → u/latefordinner86]

Bridge foundation are a totally different thing

[u/Amtrakstory → u/Minimum-Attitude389]

This. When you see something that seems really dumb you usually just don’t know the full details about the materials involved 

[u/tacomaloki → u/Minimum-Attitude389]

anti-corrosion inhibitors entered the chat for more money

[u/i_am_icarus_falling → u/Minimum-Attitude389]

this is nonsense. wood will absolutely decay faster than concrete in saltwater. the main reason those houses are on wood instead of concrete is because it was cheaper when they built it.

[u/maidenhair_fern → u/Minimum-Attitude389]

Might need a new solution then. Doesn't seem like the wood feet hold up to haves. Maybe something like steel?

[u/Rampant16 → u/maidenhair_fern]

Yeah steel + salt water would work /s

The issue isn't the material the stilts are made out of. It's the fact they are built on sand that erodes away after a few decades.

Even if you massively overbuilt the foundation to have it all the way down to bedrock and strong enough to resist waves, the sand is still going to erode and leave your beach house surrounded by the ocean.

[u/Present_Bit3060 → u/maidenhair_fern]

In Venice, the brackish water and low oxygen levels in the lagoon actually help preserve the wood, preventing it from rotting. The minerals in the water also harden the wood, making it even more resistant. And primarily made of oak, larch, and elm. And before there was pressure treating wood.
So not exactly like full saltwater here. And not sure what this wood is but prolly pressure-treated Southern Yellow Pine or Douglas Fir in the US.

[u/Dentorion → u/Minimum-Attitude389]

There are mediaval versions of concrete with grounded Vulcan stone from Rome who are holding for thousands of years already as sea harbor stones Great read, was discovered a few months ago I think

They never could replicate it because they always tried to remake it with normal water but they needed saltwater instead:D

[u/Enginerdad → u/Dentorion]

That's an urban legend that's completely false. We can and regularly do make concrete that's far stronger and more durable that what the Romans made. The issue comes with HOW we use concrete, specifically in applications that need reinforcement. It's the deterioration of the reinforcement that causes our modern structures to decay and eventually need replacement, not the concrete. If we built everything so that all concrete was in compression like they did, we wouldn't have to worry about that. But that's extremely limiting in terms of architecture and structural engineering, which is why we don't do it.

[u/reverze1901 → u/Enginerdad]

im a liberal arts major but gonna trust the guy called engineerdad

[u/snek-jazz → u/Dentorion]

Say what you will about Spock's ability to understand human emotions, but the dude knew how to do sea harbor stones.

[u/TheGrumpiestHydra → u/maidenhair_fern]

The initial cost is higher than wood. It's all about the money 💰

[u/ResearchNo5041 → u/TheGrumpiestHydra]

Surely if you got the money to build on ocean front property you got the money to do it right??

[u/Conspicuous_Ruse → u/ResearchNo5041]

You choose Texas water front property when you really want water front but don't have money.

[u/Upbeat-Armadillo1756 → u/Conspicuous_Ruse]

Yep. Texas beaches are maybe the worst in the US. Waterfront, but…

[u/SP3NGL3R → u/ResearchNo5041]

No No. The builder went cheap (Capitalism), it's the sucker buyer that just shouldn't have bought it. But!!!! "Hey. This is the exact house as that one, just on wood instead of <literally anything else> but it's $100k less. Let's buy this one honey."

[u/ryebread91 → u/SP3NGL3R]

I know you're being facetious but surely it's not that big of a price difference right? Or do they really take you over the coals for the "premium package"?

[u/SP3NGL3R → u/ryebread91]

Well, sorta/kinda. We had a 40 foot (15m) retaining wall install in our backyard last year. The wood-version was way cheaper and is like a 10-20 year wall. We too made the choice to just get the cheaper option, BUT, if this wall fails it just means we get spillage into our yard. I want to say the wood version was $2,000 in materials and the 'nice' brick/cement version was $10,000. I'll just glue some brick facade on it and sell the house the next month :P. I'm joking, I actually prefer the natural wood look, even if I need to replace it every 10-20 years.

Now. Stilts holding up a house. A brick/cement/rebar version would take some pretty heavy work to get just right, then you build your base-frame on top of that. I'd bet it's the difference of 10k in work/materials to 40k. Heck even hammering in the stilt is easier than digging down to the same depth for a much larger cement base. But everything has a mark-up. To actually just build a house is no where near the value of the house. Even here (GA USA). Say you buy an empty plot of land with intent to build a house. You'll struggle to find legit companies to do it because you're just one house, versus the 300 houses being development 1 block away. So your costs go up. Say the 300 houses cost an average of 200k each to build, they'll sell for 500k in reality. And the same house 1-off if you had it built would cost you 400k and you'd have to constantly be involved for decisions, versus picking from a menu. I'm making the numbers up, to some degree, just to make a point.

[u/Laiko_Kairen → u/SP3NGL3R]

You're right, though. It's why every new neighborhood is made up of 300 cookie cutter houses with one of four designs, maybe a few different cladding options, etc. It's basically the difference between a bespoke suit and an off-the-rack mass manufactured one

[u/MOMO-POKEMON → u/Laiko_Kairen]

Yes every NEW NEIGHBORHOOD tends to be very cookie cutter, here I helped lol 😂

[u/Sad_Low3239 → u/SP3NGL3R]

This.

Everyone keeps complaining about affordable houses up here in Canada and you cannot find anyone to build one.

I called 15 companies and was hoping for a 2 bedroom Strawberry Box home. Of the 15, 2 answered. 1 flat out said unless we were looking to have 500k or more built they weren't interested in giving us a quote. The other one told us that no one will build that anymore and we need to look elsewhere.

Kent mini homes was a company built for modular cheap houses. They start at 250k, and that was 6 years ago. The cost for the house isn't linear though to the pricing ; that 250k is your barebones 1 master bedroom with open concept kitchen/ livingroom, 1 full bath house. So 4 load bearing walls, 4 internal non load bearing and then electrical. 250k.

If you go up to 400k though? You get bay windows, a second bedroom, 4 extra feet on both dimensions, larger bathroom with sacrificing a little to the kitchen and living room.

Then there are laws against tiny houses.

[u/PitBullFan → u/SP3NGL3R]

When you go into the purchase knowing that you're probably going to sell again in 10 years, maybe less, you don't really care unless you think it will be a problem when you're selling.

That's the advice I give my clients: When you're looking to purchase something, consider what selling would look like. If the property is "perfect" for you, but would be weird for most people, you're going to have a hard time when you want to sell.

[u/SP3NGL3R → u/PitBullFan]

I always worry about that when buying too. We've done a fair bit of house hopping (4 in 15 years) and though I might 'love' that cooky design choice I'm well aware that it's cooky and might only appeal to me. We've just renovated/built our basement and backyard and worry that we've made some similar choices. We'll see when we sell I guess.

[u/greysnowcone → u/SP3NGL3R]

lol capitalism? As opposed to what? Soviet bloc apartments? Because that’s the alternative.

[u/webtwopointno → u/ResearchNo5041]

Do you really think everybody who lives on the coast is a rich tourist with a second home?

[u/DemonSlyr007 → u/webtwopointno]

Dude this whole thread is filled with people making jokes about how all these homes cost nearly a Million dollars.

Reddit and kids are so out of touch with reality when it comes to home prices, there's no point in trying to get through to them.

[u/Fantastic-Deal4148 → u/DemonSlyr007]

uhhhh... Obx NC Zillow map

[u/TheDifficultLime → u/DemonSlyr007]

Maybe you need to go check beach house prices..

[u/DemonSlyr007 → u/TheDifficultLime]

Literally someone linked a zillow link under my exact comment trying to prove a point that they could find million dollar beach front homes. Obviously you can. But also, on that exact link, were plenty for 400k. In a housing bubble atm too.

I never ever claimed that you cant find million dollar beach front homes. If thats how people read my comment, I'll do a better job in the future completely specifying what I mean. Finding extreme prices and claiming they are the norm is what bugs me and what I was saying. A lot of the comments here seem to think that beach front=extremely expensive. When that isn't always the case. Some of the poorest people live on beaches because they are not always the best places to live for exactly the reason we see in this video.

[u/webtwopointno → u/DemonSlyr007]

And these even are nicer beach houses, what i was responding to was about the Gulf Coast where there are plenty of impoverished areas essentially at sea level.

[u/GhostofBeowulf → u/webtwopointno]

er care to back that up?

Like coastal city that has median income less than a nearby non coastal city?

[u/CogentCogitations → u/ResearchNo5041]

Ocean front property is not that expensive when the property is not really "livable". That's why homes keep being built in areas that flood, because it is cheap. And usually insurance will not cover them, at least not for the very obvious risk of storm/wave/flood damage.

[u/Anfins → u/ResearchNo5041]

Some of the new construction these days are both expensive and built like shit with cookie cutter designs. Yet they often sell for over asking price so there's no incentive for builders to do better.

[u/Unusual-External4230 → u/ResearchNo5041]

Beach houses weren't always as expensive relative to regular incomes as they are today, they were always a privilege but not with the same income to ownership disparity you see now. Many of these would've been built during that era and using concrete would've likely been prohibitively expensive.

It's also not entirely necessary, the wood lasts a very long time barring any severe damage and proper wood choice. It's probably also better off - if a hurricane ripped off the non-concrete structure, it's a lot easier to tear down and rebuild with wood stilts instead of trying to determine if the concrete was compromised by debris or not.

I grew up going to one of these islands and a lot of older houses are still standing now that were old when I was a kid.

[u/BootsAndBeards → u/ResearchNo5041]

Every dollar spent on a fancy foundation is a dollar not spent adding a 5th bedroom.

[u/sump_daddy → u/ResearchNo5041]

If youve been inside some of those houses it starts to make sense. They are built as cheap as possible because all they will be is rentals. The most important (perhaps only) factor driving decisions is 'years to payoff'. They build it as cheap as possible, maintain it as cheap as possible, because it means more money in their pocket. If it falls down 25 years later? The profit will have been made, and it will be someone elses problem by then.

[u/sdave001 → u/ResearchNo5041]

People want BIGGER houses, not better.

[u/mosquem → u/ResearchNo5041]

Outer Banks isn’t that expensive.

[u/maidenhair_fern → u/TheGrumpiestHydra]

Replacing the rotting wood and the eventual fall of the house sounds more expensive to me but capitalists can see beyond the next quarter so

[u/ShiftE_80 → u/maidenhair_fern]

The wooden piers are pressure treated so rot and termites aren't usually an issue.

Houses along the Atlantic and Gulf coast regularly get wrecked by hurricanes, so they aren't built to last. This video is pretty unusual; typically the piers are the last thing standing.

[u/maidenhair_fern → u/ShiftE_80]

I see, thanks!

[u/WilliamJamesMyers → u/maidenhair_fern]

the kicker is that they have the money to do concrete and make the choice not to

[u/SP3NGL3R → u/WilliamJamesMyers]

also Capitalist myopic mindset. Why would "I" spend the money when I'll just sell to a sucker that doesn't know any better? ... I hate that they aren't wrong.

[u/FreddoMac5 → u/SP3NGL3R]

what a stupid fucking take. People don't build concrete piers because it's prohibitively expensive to do so. How would public ownership of the economy change how someone decides to build a house of their own.

Dumbass teenagers with their "capitalist" hot takes will always be cringe.

[u/cubgerish → u/maidenhair_fern]

Sand is still sand, no matter what's on top of it.

Concrete might do a little better, but if you take the houses shown here for instance, it's still going down.

At the end of the day, the bedrock just isn't there, and if you went deep enough to where it was, it's not worth it.

There's a reason you see the same thing literally all over the world in coastal places.

It's just way too expensive.

[u/Plaidfu → u/maidenhair_fern]

Wooden pilings are cheaper and easier to install than concrete or steel, especially in soft, sandy soils common near beaches.

In places with many smaller or seasonal homes, the budget often doesn’t justify concrete or steel foundations especially since they are often having to make repairs due to the situation - wood is much easier to replace and repair.

in more hurricane heavy and wealthier areas you will find more steel and concrete being used but usually its just not cost effective

[u/Cayke_Cooky → u/Plaidfu]

If you are lucky they survive intact and wash up on the beach in a day or two so you can rebuild with the same wood! Or at lest someones posts washes up on your beach.

[u/becausenope → u/maidenhair_fern]

My parents just lifted their home so I can actually answer this question; the reason they don't use concrete pillars is generally because of the sandy soils. It's not just about cost.

Basically, you don't want to use something really heavy and inflexible where the ground is constantly shifting because of erosion. Wood is flexible, easily repaired and easily modified to accommodate erosion. That's why.

[u/PleasantStatement521 → u/maidenhair_fern]

Wood or concrete don’t matter: the ocean is taking those houses.

[u/Crafty-Interest-8212 → u/maidenhair_fern]

It will last longer, but the rebar inside will be corroded eventually. The steel will expand and contract cracking the concrete. That will allow more salt water to go in and continue the corrosion. So my guess is that you can change a wooden pillar easier than a concrete one.

[u/747WakeTurbulance → u/maidenhair_fern]

Because concrete is porous and has rebar inside of that will rust, expand, and crack.

Spalling - this is an issue all of us that live close to the ocean have to deal with. Spalling repairs run from the tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars to fix.

[u/footdragon → u/maidenhair_fern]

I'm familiar with these pressure treated 8x8 wood pillar homes. The posts are buried as much as 15 feet under ground. the soil at that depth is very firm.

the first step after the posts are set plumb is to cut each of the posts to level. from there, girders are set, and the pressure treated floor joists are exposed to air.

[u/starvetheplatypus → u/maidenhair_fern]

Lots of dummies here saying dumb stuff. Wood is better when tall and and thin, and also replaceable. Concrete is porous and needs steel reinforcement which when submerged won't do well. Wood can bend and vibrate, but concrete is brittle. So coastal stilts, as a GC, id take Wood. Granted id reinforce the shear value of the stilts and the waves would really only ever come from one direction. Its also pretty easy to treat (creosote) Wood for coastal stuff. Case in point, 2 of my favorite surf spots have stairs, one is concrete one is treated Wood. Wood one is super ancient treated lumber while concrete is a little newer but the rusting rebar has already expanded and broke off he concrete exposing the rebar which will now rust faster

[u/m240b1991 → u/maidenhair_fern]

So, concrete isn't a horrible solution, except for this location. So, think about erosion and the evolution of the coastline of the OBX over the last century. The wood pilons (or stilts) have a level of flex and give in many conditions. This isn't a bug. It's a feature. The idea is that the obx has the potential for very hostile weather. There's hurricanes and storm surges, there's nor'easters, and these houses are meant to withstand all of this. If concrete were used rather than wood, the cost to build would be exponentially higher. Additionally, all of the wind force would be on the house itself rather than more evenly distributed over the pilons and the house. Lastly, the population of the obx nearly explodes between Memorial Day and Labor Day. Most of the residential dwellings in the region are rentals. Folks buy them for lots of money, and then they rent them for up to $5k/week (or more). Or investors build them for lots of money (Google Outer Banks mcmansions), and then rent those for exorbitant weekly fees. The weekly rental prices cover mortgage, insurance, maintenance (including the weekly cleaners and cleaning inspectors), and then what's left over goes into the owner's pocket. They're essentially short- to medium-term investment properties that bring in revenue weekly, rather than monthly.

Source: i grew up in kill devil hills, left for the army, went back, and then got fed up with the seasonal economy. In the summer, you're drowning in work, and in the off season, it's still a sleepy small town that has ghost town vibes because the proportion of people you see to houses you see is stark compared to the chaos of summer rush. For my fellow current and former food service workers, its like being slow for 3/4 of the day, then for about a quarter of the day the line is (literally) out the door and wrapped around the building. Traffic sucks because nobody has the foggiest idea of where they're going, and will cut from the center turn lane (with left turn signal on) to go to a store or restaurant on the right, until you get to the off season, where occasionally there's nary a soul on the road. It's frequently balls to the wall and you have to be paying attention to the shit drivers who stop when they have the right of way because they don't know if they took a wrong turn and can't figure out how to do a 3 point turn. I get that that happens everywhere, but in a tourist town, it's a regular occurrence.

Sorry that got so long, I miss my hometown

[u/ManOfTheCommonwealth → u/RD_Life_Enthusiast]

You’re from that area and don’t realize none of the factors you mention are applicable? The pilings are so heavily treated that they a) degrade over centuries, not decades, b) are far less flammable than the structures built upon them, c) impervious to terminates relative to structures built upon them, and d) so what? The pilings absorb little water and the water that is absorbed is salt - minimizing the foregoing 3 factors.

To use concrete pillars would require excavation and shoring into soft wet sand to depths of 14 feet or more which is inherently dangerous. Once backfilled, the fill material does not compact back as well as removed reducing lateral stability. These wood pilings are driven (really hydro-driven now-a-days with a giant pressure washer rather than pile driver) negating excavation and backfilling and are quite stable - as much or more-so than concrete alternatives. In fact, the few concrete houses down there are usually still built on wood pilings ;)

[u/Heatedblanket1984 → u/ManOfTheCommonwealth]

You meant to tell me some random redditors didn’t just solve an entire industries problems with two comments?

[u/Electronic-Jaguar389 → u/Heatedblanket1984]

“Cement! Why didn’t I think of that!”

Somebody with most likely decades of building knowledge.

[u/Plenty_Rope_2942 → u/Electronic-Jaguar389]

As an ex-resident of the OBX (North Topsail before it became a resort town when folks on the island still had job descriptions besides "ex-wife of a corporate contracts lawyer") I love hearing people argue about "stilt houses" that are getting sucked out to sea. It never gets old, and it used to happen pretty much annually.

The house. Survived. Being surrounded by hurricane-level storm surge. For days.

Meanwhile, the asphalt and cement roads and driveways up to them disappeared and crumbled into the sea within the first 30 minutes.

https://preview.redd.it/wu6szmlwld5f1.png?width=2293&format=png&auto=webp&s=bf6d0801344e89eff14c6b2db5ad6d279f52d525

Look at the images from Hurricane Fran, where basically every roadway, cement structure, and pad was ripped clean off the island in minutes. Anything not lost was condemned. What's still standing, almost untouched? The lumber piled buildings (less siding and roofs, of course.)

It's the best solution anybody has EVER come up with to living with the sea as your front porch.

[u/Electronic-Jaguar389 → u/Plenty_Rope_2942]

It’s crazy! It’s almost as if tons of trial and error came before the building process! 

For real though people really hate on all American houses (on stilts or not) even though there’s a perfectly good reason for why we build our houses a certain way.

We have natural disasters somewhere in this country basically monthly. We don’t build with stone or cement because the last thing you want during a natural disaster is ten tons of bricks and cement coming through your wall. We build houses to last 50-80 years (if they’re not scammy builders because we do have those too) at most because no matter what you use to build it, it’s not going to survive a wildfire, a F-4 tornado, a category 4 hurricane, etc. and within that time frame most likely you’re going to see one.

[u/JollyToby0220 → u/Heatedblanket1984]

It is very common to use wood over concrete, but some structures have used concrete and they are expensive. This area isn‘t a really trendy area so they use wood

[u/David-S-Pumpkins → u/ManOfTheCommonwealth]

You sound like an expert and I will assume you are. Is there any way they could like, put more down in 30 years/replace similar to a lifespan of a roof? Kind of cycle out older pilings to mitigate this type of shit?

[u/ManOfTheCommonwealth → u/David-S-Pumpkins]

I’m no expert, just have a family home in Rodanthe. I saw this house fall from my deck. We lose houses every year on the Outer Banks, that ain’t no big deal. It’s the rapidity of loss in this area at issue.

The problem isn’t the pilings - they last for centuries - the problem is beach erosion heightened by the movement of off shore sandbars which previously protected this area by dissipating wave energy before hitting shore. Now we’re on the edge of these shoals so receiving the brunt of wave action like a dagger to the heart. Couple this with extreme sea level rise and historic westward migration of barrier islands and BOOM -crick done rise.

[u/TheLizzyIzzi → u/David-S-Pumpkins]

Lifting houses can be done but it requires some serious engineering, which means $$$$. Still, if it’s every 30 years, it’s doable, even if you have to pay with equity or include it in the original mortgage.

[u/rabel → u/ManOfTheCommonwealth]

This guy pilings

[u/Khantoro → u/ManOfTheCommonwealth]

You can use or should probably use another back fill material that compacts well. Also, you can drive concrete piles, just different method (drive steel pipes first, excavate inside, pour concrete inside) but it is more expensive. I’m not from the area so maybe there are more things to consider.

[u/alaskan_Pyrex → u/ManOfTheCommonwealth]

Not to mention how damaging salt water is to concrete! Concrete is porous.

[u/Shrowden → u/RD_Life_Enthusiast]

Termites in salt water soaked logs?

[u/NoSpawnConga → u/Shrowden]

It's more likely than you think.

[u/RD_Life_Enthusiast → u/Shrowden]

Yeah, I didn't mean all of that to run together. And outside of storm season, the pier and beam structure isn't underwater...

[u/Too_Ton → u/RD_Life_Enthusiast]

Would the concrete even help when the sand would just shift and the whole thing comes down anyway?

[u/MediumRay → u/RD_Life_Enthusiast]

All of Venice is on wooden piles 

[u/Searloin22 → u/RD_Life_Enthusiast]

You're welcome!

• Beach

[u/TEOsix → u/RD_Life_Enthusiast]

I don’t know that termites have come up through wet sand before. Hmmm. I could be wrong. I know they can fly but don’t think they all fly.

[u/[deleted] → u/RD_Life_Enthusiast]

Fun fact, Venice, Italy is all built on stilts/logs. All of it. 

[u/Mattna-da → u/RD_Life_Enthusiast]

Pressure treated posts are pretty resistant to degradation and fire and can be driven right in to the ground - and is a fraction of the cost so there you go. And in this case concrete might not have helped, the waves are lifting the house and pushing it, and the sand under the pillars is gone

[u/cheapskateskirtsteak → u/RD_Life_Enthusiast]

Post Katrina a lot of the houses that get raised here in southern Louisiana are on concrete bricks, subsidized by FEMA. The gym I go to had a guy who owned a company that raised houses, he was telling me he had to go out of business in the next 6 months without the FEMA money

[u/AbueloSalcedo → u/RD_Life_Enthusiast]

What's are the names of these places? I wanna see pictures

[u/PokeRuckus → u/RD_Life_Enthusiast]

There’s a lot of houses I surveyed like this in Florida but they’re on concrete

[u/InternetExploder87 → u/RD_Life_Enthusiast]

Those were a specific tree in Venice (can't remember specifics) but they would essentially petrify and turn to stone IIRC

[u/kennycraven → u/RD_Life_Enthusiast]

Loose shifting sand is unstable for any pier.

[u/cpMetis → u/RD_Life_Enthusiast]

Wood is somewhere between as good and better.

Properly treated wood can last effectively forever in salt water.

[u/orange_sherbetz → u/RD_Life_Enthusiast]

Reminds me of a 400K ish house near coastal property.  Not a hop, away but you can smell the sea.

The only issue - termites.

They still wouldn't lower the price.

[u/dirty_hooker → u/RD_Life_Enthusiast]

Interestingly, wood is safer in a fire than steel and I think concrete. You’ll see it a lot in warehouses and factories where there is risk of fire. Get over a certain temp and the wood will burn but slowly. Get over the same temp and steel will fold catastrophically. See also 9/11. Yes, wood burns but more slowly than steel can go soft.

[u/Comfortableliar24 → u/RD_Life_Enthusiast]

Concrete pillars have steel reinforcement. In marine environments, the salt gets into the concrete and the steel undergoes chloride based corrosion. This causes spalling, which causes section loss, which causes collapse.

Timber is cheaper and does the job fine. No amount of concrete or steel will hold back scour, though. That's likely what did the house in the video in.

[u/TheBimpo → u/RD_Life_Enthusiast]

I'm from that area

Then you should know that those islands shift constantly. Building on concrete means you'd be living on concrete pillars over water eventually. These homes were built hundreds of feet from the ocean.

[u/publiusvaleri_us → u/RD_Life_Enthusiast]

Wood has several properties superior to steel and concrete. It's not that easy! There are trade-offs.

[u/throwawaynbad → u/RD_Life_Enthusiast]

Concrete would need rebar, which probably degrades quicker in this environment.

[u/mrtwidlywinks → u/RD_Life_Enthusiast]

My parents live in a flood zone. Their house is right above the 100 year high water line, but all new houses are required to be a minimum height on stilts. The neighborhood is mostly empty because of that requirement but the new houses sure do look cool!

[u/ELON_WHO → u/RD_Life_Enthusiast]

I don’t get the appeal of those beaches. It’s just a blank strip of sand with little waves (or a hurricane). I guess I’m ruined by my Oregon Coast- I need rugged rocks and trees, cliffs and mountains, tidepools and spouts.

[u/Wobblycogs → u/RD_Life_Enthusiast]

It's ok. The flooding keeps the termites under control.

[u/lord-dinglebury → u/tidder_mac]

I’ve always thought the same thing about the houses built on coastal cliffs. Didn’t these people learn about erosion in third grade like everyone else?

[u/Snafoo88 → u/lord-dinglebury]

Erosion? Sounds like woke propaganda to me!

[u/RangerFan80 → u/Snafoo88]

What do you think the E in DEI stands for?!?!

[u/lord-dinglebury → u/Snafoo88]

ONLY THING THEY’RE ERODIN ON THE COAST IS OUR CHRISTIAN VALUES

[u/DemIce → u/Snafoo88]

https://www.ncleg.gov/BillLookup/2011/h819

A controversial law in North Carolina, known as House Bill 819 (S.L. 2012-201), bans state and local agencies from basing its coastal policies on scientific models indicating an accelerating rise in sea level in favor of historical linear predictions.
https://blogs.cuit.columbia.edu/culr/2016/03/21/north-carolina-denies-and-defies-science-in-house-bill-819/

[u/Open-Preparation-268 → u/lord-dinglebury]

Or Mel Gibson with a big ole 4wd

[u/mst3k_42 → u/lord-dinglebury]

Or earthquakes.

[u/Hawks_12 → u/lord-dinglebury]

I’m sure it won’t erode during my life time, so no problem.

[u/Aggravating_Wheel297 → u/lord-dinglebury]

This is region dependant, but in some areas insurance companies are forced to insure you at a certain price. So even if your house gets blown down every 10 years, the insurance company has to build up a new one and can’t raise your premiums.

This is usually forced through state legislature, but sometimes models predict the cost to insure a region is greater than what the company can charge, and then companies have been known to pull out of entire states.

[u/GypJoint → u/tidder_mac]

That’s like the place where Flapjack lived.

[u/oyster_baggins_69420 → u/GypJoint]

[u/Fibrosis5O → u/oyster_baggins_69420]

[u/APigInANixonMask → u/GypJoint]

I'd seek out Candy Island too if I lived in a house on stilts in a raging sea.

[u/They-Are-Out-There → u/tidder_mac]

If only someone could have warned them about building a house on the sand being a foolish thing to do…

[u/Soggy-Beach1403 → u/They-Are-Out-There]

And so castles made of sand

fall in the sea eventually

J. Hendrix

[u/SuperPussyFan → u/Soggy-Beach1403]

What about sandcastles in the sand?

[u/Thesmuz → u/SuperPussyFan]

Hood classic

"Let's go to the mall" was her peak tho.

[u/IAmtheHullabaloo → u/Soggy-Beach1403]

Easy top 10 best poem songs ever.

[u/TraditionalLaw7763 → u/They-Are-Out-There]

lol, the Bible even warns about it… too bad no one remembers and builds houses anyway.

[u/Queue37 → u/TraditionalLaw7763]

Well, it might look kinda nice, but you'll have to build it twice! Yes, you'll have to build your house once more.

Thanks for retriggering that childhood horror.

[u/LarrySDonald → u/TraditionalLaw7763]

Psht, like Texans are going to read the Bible..

Drove around Galveston about 10 years ago, lots of these everywhere. They seemed pretty stable. It’s not like some rando invented this a few years ago or anything, they do have some past experience with it.

[u/LurkmasterP → u/LarrySDonald]

Oh, they read their bibles. But the parts that get in the way of what they want to do are the "open to interpretation" parts of the bible, not like the "indisputable truth" parts.

[u/typical-bob → u/They-Are-Out-There]

[u/OwslyOwl → u/They-Are-Out-There]

It wasn’t that they built the houses ON the beach, but rather after decades of erosion, the ocean continued to creep up and washed away the vegetation and roads.

[u/FirstDukeofAnkh → u/They-Are-Out-There]

‘When I first came here, this was all swamp. Everyone said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built in all the same, just to show them. It sank into the swamp. So I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So I built a third. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one stayed up. And that's what you're going to get, Lad, the strongest castle in all of England.’

[u/church-basement-lady → u/They-Are-Out-There]

I see what you did there. 😄

[u/fizzmore → u/church-basement-lady]

Username checks out

[u/Agreeable-Spot-7376 → u/They-Are-Out-There]

It’s not foolish if the insurance companies let you rebuild every time it happens :)

[u/Dantheman1386 → u/They-Are-Out-There]

That’s just a metaphor for the human soul, in real life it is probably fine /s

[u/OppositeArt8562 → u/They-Are-Out-There]

They dont care. Probably owned by private equity as a vacation rental. They get an insurance write off and the rest of us get increased insurance costs and premiums.

[u/alagrancosa → u/They-Are-Out-There]

They knew. That house is our tax dollars washing away. We subsidize the rebuilding of these structures and each time they come back bigger because of federal flood insurance.

80 years ago you would find cottages and shanties in an area like this because of insurability, most people could afford a few days right on the beach. Now it’s just these sort of structures up and down the east coast.

[u/Anvildude → u/They-Are-Out-There]

Hey, has anyone seen Peter?

[u/andLetsGoWalkin → u/They-Are-Out-There]

https://youtu.be/NH_Leczxyw4?si=OMvC-nzEQVEdoD0G

Eek-a-Mouse "Noah's Ark"

[u/They-Are-Out-There → u/andLetsGoWalkin]

Great song. I've been an Eek A Mouse fan since the 1980's. Here's one of his great concerts from the Reggae Rotterdam Festival from just a few years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fhv0PEqqs_4

Most people are familiar with his famous Wa-Do-Dem song. It's always great to jam to.

https://youtu.be/Fhv0PEqqs_4?t=2006

[u/Chickadee12345 → u/They-Are-Out-There]

It probably wasn't that far into the sand when it was first built. But beach erosion happens and it ended up too close to the ocean.

[u/sayleanenlarge → u/They-Are-Out-There]

The three little pigs tried to teach us all about not building homes with straw and sticks. We were supposed to internalise that as kids.

[u/GueroBorracho3 → u/tidder_mac]

Cheers from Port Aransas

[u/JoKir1982 → u/tidder_mac]

I could only begin to imagine the cost of renters insurance though. Nightmare fuel.

[u/psycubi → u/JoKir1982]

Taxpayer dollars will subsidize it.

[u/JoKir1982 → u/psycubi]

Privatize profits while socializing losses.

[u/Broad-Writing-5881 → u/tidder_mac]

Local builder in Houston rebuilt his house with a "flow through" garage/storage as the first floor after Harvey.

[u/Jo-18 → u/tidder_mac]

Been going to OBX pretty much every summer since I’ve been born.

I figure I’ll buy a house down there now that’s like 150 yds back from the oceanfront. By the time I’m able to retire, there’s a decent chance that house will be oceanfront. It’s a win win, until the next hurricane comes through.

[u/The_YangZing_Guru → u/tidder_mac]

There’s entire towns all built like this on coastal Texas waters

"A testament to mankind's arrogance"

[u/Select_Factor_5463 → u/tidder_mac]

If you buy there, I'm sure the insurance rates are sky high!

[u/tomgie → u/Select_Factor_5463]

Or non existent

[u/Raegnarr → u/tidder_mac]

You'd think the cities would build a burm or something

[u/92Codester → u/tidder_mac]

Same in Florida

[u/Kim_Smoltz_ → u/tidder_mac]

Love going to Galveston but it's wild to see the beaches erode and how close the coastline is getting to houses that used to be pretty comfortably away from it.

[u/port-girl → u/tidder_mac]

I visited Matagorda Texas a few years ago and was surprised that houses were built on what seemed like a sand causeway out to a jetty. How much do these people pay for insurance?!?

[u/Commander-of-ducks → u/tidder_mac]

And the ones who built the million dollar homes on the beachfront do impact homeowner rates, and hence your premiums. They might say "oh, but we pay our individual windstorm coverage," but that doesn't tell the whole story. Insurers buy reinsurance, so the losses from hurricanes, tropical storms, etc, are baked into everyone's rates and premiums via reinsurance.

[u/PerformanceOk9933 → u/tidder_mac]

I lived there. Got blown away in a hurricane

[u/fispan → u/tidder_mac]

Was thinking about this driving around Galveston. It's only a matter of time.

[u/Tiernan1980 → u/tidder_mac]

Cameron Parish in Louisiana, too. It just seems crazy to build there with all the hurricanes they’ve had over the years.

[u/pespisheros → u/tidder_mac]

Um tsunami e desaparece tudo.

[u/AshumSmashums → u/tidder_mac]

As far inland as Texas City, Dickinson and League City there are still whole apartment buildings on ‘stilts’ or where it’s only parking on the first level. The flooding goes far further in from the coast down there than most realize.

[u/BigMax → u/tidder_mac]

I suppose done right, at the right height, it could be cool to buy there. We can build bridge footings that have no trouble sitting in deep water and heavy surf for 100 years. We could certainly do the same for a house.

You could have a house that is immune to floods for the next 20 years, then a house that is it's own little island after that when sea levels rise enough!

[u/senorglory → u/tidder_mac]

Which town?

[u/JawtisticShark → u/tidder_mac]

I understand the need to be on stilts, but maybe make those stilts a little more robust. And maybe watch the weight of the house a bit, no full brick facade.

And yes, I’m aware hindsight is 20/20

[u/Dogwood_morel → u/tidder_mac]

It’s insane. We visited and I was astonished. Granted I’ve not spent much time near an ocean it’s just hard for my midwestern brain to get. Loved the little bit of fishing I got to do, the food, and exploring but I don’t know that I could ever live there.

[u/Atlesi_Feyst → u/tidder_mac]

I'm curious what space x will do in the long run. If ocean levels do keep rising they will have some nasty storm surges.

[u/K-C_Racing14 → u/tidder_mac]

I saw the same thing in Louisiana, the road was 3 ft Tall and was the only thing stopping the water for as far you can see in both directions. 😳

[u/Jokiranta → u/tidder_mac]

Like venice

[u/AR2Believe → u/tidder_mac]

We vacationed at my aunt & uncles’ beach house in Galveston when I was a kid. By the time I was an adult, it had been wiped off the map, never to be rebuilt.

[u/awayman1129 → u/tidder_mac]

Yep and few hurricanes back half of em got washed away and their lots are a hundred yards out in the ocean. Wha did they do? Just build more on the new shoreline... 

[u/beermeliberty → u/tidder_mac]

Venice is built on top of pylons

[u/whimsical_trash → u/tidder_mac]

At the Jersey shore some houses are on stilts and others have this weird setup where there's basically nothing on the ground floor and the kitchen is on the top floor, because of flooding.

[u/DonatedEyeballs → u/tidder_mac]

Galveston, soon to be Galvestoff.

[u/NolieMali → u/tidder_mac]

There's an island in my hometown (NWFL) that is no taller than 12 feet and no wider than a mile. If your house isn't on stilts then it will be getting storm surge during the next hurricane. During Opal and Ivan a lot of bottom level buildings filled up with sand (after the initial rush of water from the Gulf of Mexico).

[u/readwithjack → u/tidder_mac]

I was reading about The Great Storm of 1703.

Essentially, a catagory 2 hurricane hit pre-industrial revolution England and wrecked shit. They found a seagoing boat 26 miles inland.

[u/junkyardpig → u/tidder_mac]

I read that at at first as "100s to 1000s of feet in the air." Might work!

[u/rage_wins → u/tidder_mac]

I can’t remember the beach town, it was a small one, but we were on vacation on the TX coast during Harvey and had to get evacuated. I thought it was crazy how fragile the beach houses seemed on the wood stilts. Anyways, we were only there a day, evacuated and got a refund. The sky and storm incoming was beautiful tho.

[u/Coblish → u/tidder_mac]

Yep, I grew up in Rockport. It has quite a lot of that. Our house was not on stilts, but on top of short, fat concrete barrels. We were also luckily in a spot that was a tiny bit higher above sea level than others.

That house survived so many hurricanes and crap. Because it was up on beams it also allowed my mother to move it when she decided to sell the property. She moved a full, wood and tile, 1600 square foot house because she wanted to. It was insane.

https://imgur.com/a/8M6gNJk

[u/breath_ofthemild → u/tidder_mac]

I will say, the ones in Southeast Texas typically have way less house on them than this one did. This one is a damn McMansion on toothpicks

[u/KennailandI → u/tidder_mac]

There are homes on much shorter stilts in northern Canada where they’ve built on permafrost. Need the stilts there to keep the home from melting the permafrost and making it sink. Not nearly as cool to watch tho

[u/MrTeamKill → u/tidder_mac]

Where is it? Just to have a look at Google Maps

[u/AyeMatey → u/tidder_mac]

Good book on a related topic. Isaac’s Storm. About Galveston, the big hurricane, and the birth of the national weather service.

[u/LimerickJim → u/tidder_mac]

All of those areas are on known flood plains as well. Why they were allowed to be built in the first place is what everyone should be asking.

[u/SuicidalSmoke → u/tidder_mac]

What even would you be buying? Land at the bottom of the sea, or an artificial ground?

[u/profnachos → u/tidder_mac]

Let me guess. No building code and no regulation cuz freedom and liberty!

[u/JonnyOnThePot420 → u/tidder_mac]

Yeah, Galveston is like this, and it's an island. I think I read Beyoncés mom's house fell in the water the other day.

[u/Exotic_Macaron4288 → u/tidder_mac]

Sargent. Surfside. Quintana.

[u/beautyanddelusion → u/tidder_mac]

What is it with red states and hating structural integrity? Between your comment, the OP, and Florida condos collapsing on their residents killing hundreds… is engineering too woke for them or something?

Are they worried about having to pay property taxes if their home isn’t a literal death trap?

Do they think God will save their house so they don’t need to actually use their brains? Is brainpower woke because it doesn’t run on fossil fuels?

All I’m saying is I’ve never seen a house this fucking stupid in California. I can’t wrap my head around the idiocy required to pay hundreds of thousands for a floating liability.

[u/TheUnrealArchon → u/tidder_mac]

And idiots wonder why they can't afford insurance

[u/Comedy86 → u/tidder_mac]

This is just more proof Texans are insane... If your whole town needs to be built on stilts due to water, you're doing it wrong...

[u/thisisinput → u/tidder_mac]

Ike in 2008 took out so many of these in Galveston.

[u/PreferredSex_Yes → u/tidder_mac]

Talking about Galveston? Once the biggest city in Texas before 1900.

[u/DrBix → u/tidder_mac]

The house could cost $1.00 but the insurance would be insane!

[u/Joeuxmardigras → u/tidder_mac]

Cameron, Louisiana has entered the chat

[u/VenexianaStevenson → u/tidder_mac]

What is this city called? I would like to see some photos

[u/ArmadilloBandito → u/tidder_mac]

I find it neat that they use their house as a carport when it's not flooded.

[u/Successful-Speech417 → u/tidder_mac]

I would be down to buy if the price actually reflected that inherent risk, aka it was cheap. There's a lot of merit to the idea I guess but maybe not going as far as to build fucking houses lol.